Episode 17 ~ Sam Sidiqi, the first Afghan to summit Mount Everest

In this episode, I talk to Sam Sidiqi, now the first Afghan mountaineer to summit Everest, about how his history-making expedition went, who he met along the way, and what he saw from the highest point on earth!

After interviewing him on Episode 11 of the Tales of Adventure podcast, Sam tells me all about the challenges that almost prevented him from standing on top of the highest mountain in the world. His remarkable determination is infectious, and his fantastic achievement serves as an inspiring message to the youth of Afghanistan, encouraging them to believe in their own capabilities and strive for greatness.

Motivated by his passion to foster mountain sports in Afghanistan, Sam embarked on his Everest expedition with the aim of raising awareness and generating funds for the development of skiing and mountaineering particularly in the remote highland regions. Through his charitable trust, Afghan Peaks, Sidiqi seeks to unlock the immense potential of Afghanistan's breath-taking mountains.

Reflecting on his monumental summit, Sam expressed his desire to empower Afghan boys and girls, instilling in them the belief that they can accomplish anything they set their minds to. Despite the challenges that Afghanistan has faced over the past decades, Sam believes the country possesses boundless potential for growth. Through hard work and unwavering determination, he aims to pave the way for a prosperous future.

Links:

1.     https://www.afghanpeaks.org

2.     https://www.instagram.com/afghanpeaks/

3.     https://www.facebook.com/AfghanPeaks

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• Read the transcript here

  0:00

  Hi and welcome to tales of adventure podcast.

  I'm Chris your host every month.

  I'll be interviewing its borrowing Adventures about overcoming hardship, taking a risk and doing it differently.

  The podcast Ames document, the learning of the, got these standout individuals to where they are.

  Now.

  In this episode, I talk to Sam Sidiqi who has just become the first Afghan to Summit Mount Everest.

  0:21

  After becoming the first Afghan, to some of the highest mountain in the u.s. month, Denali in 2021 Sam now has three impressive Summits under his belt, when he summited mirror Peak as part of his As I climbed, as a shipper, Everest over the next hour, we discuss the equipment problems, health, challenges, and physical difficulties.

  You encounter on the way up?

  0:37

  Ultimately made.

  His success mean more to him than any other.

  Hey, Sam, huge, huge.

  Congratulations for your epic historic achievement.

  I'm so beyond Stokes that you've summited Everest.

  As the first Afghan mountains near that I can barely stop shouting about it on social media.

  0:52

  So how are you doing?

  But congratulations of those.

  Were the kind words and thanks for your support though way.

  I really appreciate all you've done for the mountains of Afghanistan.

  I know this.

  This was a project you were working on.

  And so I really feel supported by all your work.

  1:07

  Thanks so much.

  And yeah, feeling feeling glad to be back home and you know, seeing the green of trees as being on that on that.

  Glacier for so long.

  Wow.

  Why we thank you so much.

  I'm so beat, ya is a project for me for four.

  1:24

  I think the best part of three years and so, having having somebody who's achieved, it is was the Biggest the best thing that's happened to me this year.

  So I'm, yeah, I'm beyond stoked again.

  And from we obviously, we spoke in January.

  1:39

  The, the project was incredibly unique because it was the non non traditional non conventional way of summiting Everest.

  Like, you just mentioned a flash then, but I guess in Broad detail.

  Could you could, you give me an understanding of what it was like to Summit Everest from the pointer which he left the u.s. to obviously standing on that?

  2:00

  Iconic Summit and he met along the way.

  Yeah, I look forward to that.

  So, I left the US on April 23rd and got into Nepal on the 25th.

  And at that point, we met with our team and the next day on the 26th, we took a couple of helicopter rides out to the start of Mera Peak.

  2:25

  So one of the things we did in our flash expedition was instead of going through the ice, Ball multiple times.

  We did our acclimatization climb on a different Mountain.

  One one reason was because we didn't want to go through the icefall, you know, too many times.

  2:41

  The second reason is that Mera Peak kind of gave some good elevation practice.

  So, it kind of the different Camp levels.

  Kind of worked out really well for us.

  Yeah, yeah.

  So we took, I think maybe six days to climb Mera Peak so a lot of Of climb up to the area, you're going to Camp, maybe climb 200 meters higher and then come back to that camp.

  3:07

  So a little bit of up and down.

  Yeah, and I may have been the first Afghan to submit Mera Peak.

  I'm claiming that was 6,400 meters.

  Yeah, and so It was kind of interesting actually because it's maybe not the most technical Summit, but when we went up, it was snowing heavily.

  3:30

  Wow.

  Yeah, sure.

  But actually tried to turn us around three or four times because they couldn't see anything.

  Wow, but the Austrian guys are like, well, we got GPS.

  We've been here before.

  So it's so there was a little bit of back and forth the guys in the sherpa, but the for like, all right, if you know, it's okay so they were good sports about it and ultimately, we Summit It got some pictures of the top and turned around and we couldn't see our tracks, and it was obviously awkward for the sherpa because they're used to Leading they go faster than us, but our guys kind of had to lead.

  4:10

  So there was this weird time, we're at one point.

  We were kind of, like, all walking in the same tracks.

  Like guys, this isn't working.

  And so then they started going parallel, but that also wasn't ideal, but it won't burn time.

  Kind of going over and icebridge quite carefully and the sherpa who's now going parallel to me, kind of fall in to the, oh my God, you know, their group of for their roped up so they caught him by the way guys.

  4:37

  Anyway, we figured it out and it was a, it was a good day.

  But I think one of the things we talked about is that this was a flash Expedition and one of the rules to support the flash was, I was a climate izing and a hypoxic tent.

  Yeah.

  So I spent a total of 425 E h acclimatizing over those three months before.

  4:56

  I went kind of using tent and maximum height I reached was around that 64 65 maybe a little more.

  Yeah.

  And and so I think one interesting comparison and it's a single data point we can let's say, run a regression on.

  5:13

  It is when I climbed Denali, I took the full 21 days so I would have reached 17 camp on day 18, maybe.

  Yeah.

  I got 217 camp on day 18.

  This is a pretty good time.

  I had long long snows at 11 and 15 and 14 that allowed me to adjust.

  5:33

  Yeah, I still struggle to eat at 17.

  I was nauseous could barely hold down food.

  I was able to climb Mera peak in six days at 6,400 meters, that's higher than Denali.

  Yeah, the high camp which was higher than 17 Camp.

  5:50

  I was able to eat.

  It wasn't super hungry, but I was Putting down food eating almost like normal.

  Well, so for me that's a pretty big vote of confidence for the hypoxic tent, just kind of as a comparison point, it really isn't that mean?

  It's you didn't have not read much or heard much about we, using hypoxic tent for this flash of see, if this, this kind of like new approach, but it took, it makes total sense because it's, when my understanding is it forces your body into producing more red blood cells, increase the oxygen, obviously, to your to your, you know, the rest of your body.

  6:22

  And so actually, it's It's something which maybe I guess you could, you could do to train for other big endurance events, where, where L too didn't necessarily the dominant Factor, but you can increase your performance for say and I doing distance or length or something, so, it's good.

  6:39

  It's interesting.

  You can look at it.

  So, so there's there's some concerns with that though.

  So, when I read about uphill athlete, I'm a big supporter of the uphill athlete training methods, evaluated it.

  And they were kind of - Vaughn it.

  They begrudgingly said, hey, it does help you get ready for base camp?

  6:58

  That's kind of what they said.

  Yeah, I'll help you get ready for base camp.

  While I was gonna say, yeah, but their concern with it.

  Is there thing a much higher level athletes than me.

  So, they're thinking of doing really groundbreaking stuff.

  Yeah, it's a challenge with it.

  Is that when you've been sleeping in the tent, you haven't necessarily been sleeping that.

  7:17

  Well, so you've actually been stressing your body out so good.

  Yeah.

  And interferes with your train.

  Right, yeah, and I'll see you.

  I'm going to recover as fast because you're not getting the Deep quality sleep, which you would usually here and stand here.

  So, so when I, when I woke up after doing my hike, a rotation in a tent, I my heart beat up in High the whole night.

  7:39

  So I try to go out for an easy run and Uphill athlete workouts.

  Always have me working out of this little heart rate and I struggled to run at all with low heart rate after those High rotations.

  Interesting.

  Well, so so you're not resting all and and My guide Lucas virgin but he said this would happen.

  7:56

  He said, listen, when you're in this tent, it's going to hurt your workouts, but don't worry about it.

  The acclimatization is much more important to summiting than, and degree of your workouts.

  Yes.

  Yeah.

  So that's where I'd be concerned about trying to use it for the endurance races.

  8:15

  He is your training for the endurance.

  Races is probably much more important than blood cells.

  Yes, yeah, I agree.

  Yeah.

  Use it to an extent like you could use it to a lower level, right?

  So after a while, I got used to it and I could sleep at, you know, 4500 meters and still work out quite well.

  8:34

  Yeah, when I pushed up over 6,000 when I was hurting so you have to really fine-tune it it wouldn't it would be a different different kind of regime.

  Yeah, that's so interesting.

  I've not ever had a chance to talk to anyone about this kind of, you know, the science aspect of this type of Adventure.

  8:51

  So you've really could end up Talking for hours on quality, on the science that I've, you know, I really, I really found an interesting in the last few years, but yeah, I find it, still find it.

  Super interesting that you can go to get these hypoxic tent switch just to save your bed and it doesn't look too Odd as well.

  9:07

  And you know this year, when I first started seeing hypoxic tent, so I was like kind of looks like you're in quarantine or something but now they look more regular more, you see them, the more they look normal.

  So I guess sleeping in.

  It was a was a odd experience at first, or was it?

  9:26

  I mean yeah, I close my eyes and there's nothing interfering with my face, it's just yeah, my chest.

  Clearly, I was in the guest room.

  My wife didn't want to have any part of that.

  Yeah.

  9:54

  And from the highest, let's say hostile place where we were staying, we got a helicopter and a couple flights over.

  We were able to get to Everest Base Camp and we had a pretty cool base camp there.

  10:11

  So our group that was summiting on the flash side, we were a team of six and pretty International and then there was an additional team of four people.

  Ooh, who are doing?

  Everest classic and then there were four people doing load.

  10:30

  Say it has a jar that was our total group.

  Yeah.

  And it really, really International Group.

  So I'm kind of Afghan American.

  There was an array nian guy but who lived in Switzerland?

  There was a Pakistani woman.

  10:45

  So one of the first Pakistani women Senators, I mean there have been a few but She's one of the first.

  Yeah, there was a french guy living in the UK, another Canadian Canadian guy.

  Another Canadian guy who lived in Basel Switzerland where I used to live.

  11:04

  Right there were a couple Swiss guys but they were, you know, the italian-swiss from Chino there was even a guy from Andorra.

  It was a guy from China so is really fun.

  Fun.

  Mix of guys different nationalities.

  Yeah.

  11:20

  Yeah, and I actually ran into somebody who I think, you know, yes, Irish guy living in Thailand, who said he'd run the marathon to solve maybe you know, somebody this is such a situation as well at the same time.

  11:47

  I didn't realize you both for the same company you let alone within the same time.

  And he sent me a picture message of you two together and I literally almost fell off my chair with the prize.

  It just you know how is it you know somebody who I've you know, who I've met on the math and disables in the middle of Sahara Desert.

  12:04

  We spent a week together, sharing a tent, you know, reading, you know, and many legs of the math and disables comparing that life notes, and career choices.

  And all these really cool, wonderful things.

  And then obviously, and then obviously your selfies who we've been speaking for.

  12:20

  The last few years and there's just you both in Everest Base Camp in the same tent at the same time.

  As I this is the universe has just been telling me something.

  It's incredible, just in and I'll have you know he still blames you for getting him to row across the Atlantic with another friend of mine.

  12:48

  I think it was when See, luntik Johnny had just right across the Atlantic.

  And Duncan was just preparing was just aging Antigua to fly into California to row across the Pacific and him, the two of them crossed over at.

  Exactly the same time.

  13:03

  And I got a photo from both of them, you know, hanging out hanging out of the barn.

  I was like, this is there that, that feeling of a small world since, you know, just doesn't happen every day, but then when it happens, it happens spectacularly.

  So yeah.

  Thank you so much for that, though.

  13:20

  Where was it was really cool to see if he actually summited at the same time?

  So we were we were on the same rope going up for a while and we were there up with this number together so it was pretty cool coincidence but it's going after getting on the podcast at some point in there and tell me about some of these experiences as well.

  13:38

  But yeah, well so I mean I mean what what's base camp like, you know, just just kind of pulling off Target socket for just a second is what your face camera.

  Like.

  So it's on Glacial Moraine, right?

  So you're not, it's not like you're on the Earth but and and even though you're on the glacier, you're really sitting on top of the Rocks, you're not on top of the ice, be on top of the rocks that are on top of it, okay?

  14:03

  So you feel like you're on this rock field, but, you know, that underneath his ice and it's a it's kind of like a small City we're talking.

  They're probably 1,000 people there, right?

  So if there's wow, well, if they're 400 permits to climb this year, those are just the the climbers for Everest, but there's, you know, some load say climbers, maybe some new PC or other climbers around.

  14:27

  And then there's also there, the Sherpas were with them.

  There's the climbing, sure.

  But then there's also the support staff.

  So you end up having I think 1000 is a probably an understatement but because there's a lot of tents all up and down this Glacier and it takes a good 45 minutes to walk from one end to the other.

  14:49

  Wow, wow.

  So when people do the Everest Trek, which is kind of a walk up, through the khumbu valley, they ended this big rock in.

  The big rock is labeled Everest ever space camp.

  It gives five thousand three hundred meters.

  15:05

  So that's the official start of it.

  If you walk all the way up to the end, to the end of the tenth, takes a good 45 minutes.

  Wow we need a city.

  Is that like I've seen you see photos of it on you know on magazines on Documentaries.

  15:21

  But I didn't realize, I've never had anyone to describe, just how the magnitude it is pretty enormous.

  Well, yeah, now it's slow walking because it's kind of Rocky and winding, but I'm gonna have a good walk and I guess what's the sleeping of see the tents are on the Rock and I'll see you've got, I guess, inflatable roll mats and things to make it comfortable.

  15:46

  So, freaking bark.

  We we do have beds.

  Especially, you know, the Everest classic team was there for quite a long time.

  Yeah, we were only supposed to be there for a few days because if we after arriving from Mera Peak, we're supposed to just kind of come in, get used to things.

  16:10

  And if the weather window was there, let's say we could have gone up as soon as May 5th.

  Yeah.

  That would have been impossible.

  But in the event we there were high winds this year.

  So with those really high winds, the team that was in charge of putting the ropes up to the summit, wasn't able to go up to the summit for quite some time that for that Vortex or whatever it was to go away.

  16:38

  So that ended up meaning that I spent an extra week at base camp and so I need to have that bed while I was there.

  Question mark, for a long time for watching overseas was to with will it happen this year?

  16:59

  Because I know the weather window and the timeframe that we will have got for it.

  He owes is finite, isn't it?

  So and yeah, how interesting, and what do you get up to in base camp and you're not climbing there until the question that.

  Yeah, so what you do is you find other places nearby to walk to, because if you just sit around For a week then you're not going to be ready to climb the mountain.

  17:21

  Yeah.

  So, you know, there's a little walkthrough base camp which, which you do not for a full workout but just to kind of walk a little bit.

  Yeah.

  You can go down to kala pattar which kind of you walk down to the next Village and then you walk up a mountain there, that's kind of the longest kind of easy.

  17:40

  Easy walk around there, and there's a reasonably.

  Close one that lets you get a little bit of elevation called the lookout.

  Yeah.

  And then there's kind of pomorie Camp one.

  People don't climb whom worried that often kumari's called.

  I think it means daughter in the local language.

  18:00

  And so I think it was Edmund, Hillary who kind of named named it that yeah daughter.

  And he actually called it by his daughter's name.

  Well, I went and that meant a lot to me because I took a video that I brought a little stuffed toy up for my daughter.

  18:20

  A picture of the stuffed toy for my daughter and friend from worried.

  Let her know that it's has that relationship for her.

  Yeah.

  Out of me.

  So those are the three little hikes and you know, the The Flash, The Flash is a little more expensive than the classic.

  18:38

  So we tended to be a little bit older and slower.

  So I have to say that the classic Team guys like Johnny and one or two.

  The other guys were quite It fast.

  So you'd see them kind of go out on these hikes.

  And then, just take off and the old guys would follow along with the guys, creaking, creaking and groaning.

  19:00

  Yeah, exactly.

  19:19

  To work.

  So, that's the other thing that we did.

  So, when I was on Denali, I brought my e-book reader, I didn't even bring my phone up, and I read lat, I like got through a few books and I brought stuff with me to read at Everest, but because I had the Wi-Fi I didn't read nearly as much.

  19:40

  So, I found myself kind of updating social media where I could writing some of those articles that you may have seen.

  I published an article.

  My local paper called The Swamp mauryan.

  Yeah.

  And so is writing those updates and doing social media and I was doing less, you know, reading a book in a tent which I can't say that the internet was amazing, right?

  20:04

  So a lot of time for kind of getting booted off and so a lot of times you're waiting for not working internet and sometimes but you'd sometimes get a golden hour where everything is just flowing and and you're getting work done and things are working well.

  Yeah.

  20:20

  Wow.

  It's I mean it sounds it sounds like a you described it as a city it's got Wi-Fi.

  It's very it's very hard to kind of switch into that Adventure mindset.

  We think why?

  I'm here to climb a mountain.

  So I guess because you've got those Island Australian, we hands that Argentinian Chef meals a day for us.

  20:37

  Right.

  So we weren't eating out of little meal packs were showing up at specific times for for nice food.

  Wow, Avi tinian, Chef is a doing the reason why Argentinian Chef was, I think she was a mountain Chef on Aconcagua so she knows me.

  20:56

  It's not like a just a steak chef Because I'm leaving all of your Creature Comforts and then you'll get your in mission mode to.

  21:31

  Yeah.

  So another big difference between Everest and Denali is it on every on Denali You kind of go out to the mountain and you just kind of take what it gives you.

  Yeah we're on Everest.

  21:47

  You don't start going up until they have a pretty good feel for the weather model, right?

  So again Denali I got snowed in twice for five days, it different, you know, five days each time at different spots on hubris.

  You stay in base camp, until you know, you're just going to push it to the top.

  22:04

  Yeah. so, You're as you said, you're in mission mode.

  So you're a little bit again, less worried about the Creature Comforts and on Denali you have to enjoy some Creature Comforts on the mountain.

  You know, the guides will cook a cool pancake breakfast.

  22:20

  Sometimes you'll have some thing in your pack, you want to eat because you need to buy the time.

  You have to keep it going for those 21 days.

  Whereas yeah, you kind of can enjoy base camp to excite it can get cold at base camp sometimes and you know, it's, it's still.

  It's still tense.

  Yeah.

  22:35

  But it's okay.

  And then you move in.

  To the mountain and it's hey, let's get this done.

  Six days.

  Boom, boom, boom, boom.

  So before you go up I think it's the day.

  Before that morning you meet your the sherpa you're going to go with.

  22:53

  So on the flash team, I was assigned to Sherpa that that's part of part of the engagement.

  Yeah.

  Do you mean the to Sherpa you're working with and then I started working with purba and Nema.

  Had I One of eight times on the on the North side and three times up on this outside and Nema.

  23:17

  Gone up, I think two times so far so one was more experienced than the other.

  We also had our oxygen training probably the day before.

  Yeah.

  That's our oxygen masks that that day. and we ended up leaving at about, so we met for, we got suited up and met for soup at 10:00 p.m. and he took off 11 p.m. wow.

  23:48

  So we took off late at night, for two reasons.

  One, we're trying to pick a time when other people aren't going through the icefall.

  Yeah icefall you have some rope sections where you can easily get kind of clogged up.

  So you're hoping to pick a time where other people wouldn't be there.

  Also wanted to go through when it's nice and cold, hopefully to limit movement of ice.

  24:10

  Yes.

  Yeah.

  I don't say rock fallen and kind of all the other challenges that come with obviously when heat and light.

  It's hip size isn't?

  Yeah, so with the icefall, you don't see so many rocks in the ice, it is really about the ice moving the crevasses, moving the ladders falling through, and so we were moving to that.

  24:33

  But even our group was big enough because I mentioned, we were so one person kind of didn't want to go ahead, she ended up leaving so our and and actually, one of our guys Eyes on the flash team, he had to go for his sons graduation at University of Pennsylvania which is right here where I live so he flew to the airport.

  24:58

  So our flash team was down.

  He flew back like two days later and some.

  Are you kidding me?

  Wow.

  So sorry.

  25:18

  It was impressive.

  So there were four of us on the flash delivers to the or 12, 12 climbers.

  Plus, let's see for foreign guides that 16 and then plus Sherpa.

  So we're talking 35, Plus people, so we still caused our own log jams and occasion.

  25:35

  So I took the approach of all right, if everybody's sitting on the Rope, I'm not going to just stand in line on the Rope.

  I'm going to sit down and have my water and food.

  So I didn't do the front of our group but I took my rests along the way.

  And I thought I worked through it.

  The evening pretty well.

  Yeah.

  25:51

  And with, so with the khumbu icefall, it's not just kind of steep walking, but there is quite a lot of rope work, so you do end up using your upper body to kind of climb up fairly steep steep area.

  So, that tires, your body out in a different way from how you've necessarily trained.

  26:09

  And then there's also, you know, the first time you're Crossing and aluminum ladder over a crevasse, in the dark, where you've got a row, Up and you know when you're walking across your crampons, if you try to take a big step, sometimes they'll like stick onto the ladder everything.

  26:29

  When you find yourself kind of walking backwards, it's just kind of the angle of the claw.

  Yeah if you if you take a big step it kind of catches and then you're like I know I'm spending I was trying to go faster but now I'm actually spending longer on the I always look at that face.

  26:52

  The scene where people walking across the ladders with the crampons.

  You know, I think actually was really tough, you know, like, without about, you know, poking yourself with the crampons and their hard work at the best of times let alone across a ladder across a crevasse with compounds.

  Is it looks pretty crazy at night in the dark, I don't know why I keep on using this headlamp that I bought when I do Ed, what's it called?

  27:20

  Mont Blanc, in 2013, as a black diamond.

  It's got to be good, but I think like, the technology must have moved on because my headlamp just seemed to be like Dole.

  I really hope I can barely see.

  I can barely see anything as I was, as I was walking.

  So, it's kind of relying on my Sherpas headlamp after all.

  27:39

  So my headlamp was like, kind of so-so, but, you know, kind of kind of work through that and it took us about About six hours to get through and up to Camp one.

  Yeah.

  And we get into Camp one and the plan is to rest that day, we get into our tents.

  28:01

  So this is how this is about 5 a.m. or so in the morning just diving Sun's starting to rise or Watson's already risen.

  So, it's okay, right?

  Yeah, son's not on us, but but it's bright.

  You can see ya.

  So we get into our tents.

  28:17

  And the and the temperature just keeps Rising.

  So, it starts out nice but after a few hours I have to say that's the hottest day that I've spent since I left the Middle East.

  Wow.

  So my tent made an eye out for a little while we're so he was kind of knocked out because he had a little bit of a longer day in the ice wall and he's just really good at sleeping.

  28:40

  So he was sleeping in a sleeping bag.

  Straight up to get out of your sleeping Bag, Man.

  Alrighty, and in the, in the down made me hotter.

  Wow, so so after a little while, we were just sitting there with the tent flaps up in our underwear.

  29:03

  Yeah.

  Just Well, it's not about race literally.

  So so it was just that kind of a hot day and and we just had the whole day in the tent, which was supposed to be recovery.

  But I don't think I recovered because all the Heat and then the next morning we had what's supposed to be the easiest day, which is Camp one to Camp to basically easy uphill, maybe one or two little areas with ropes, but not much just kind of easier though.

  29:34

  That isn't even very Steve, but that morning I had a headache either because of the altitude or the effort, I put a nice fall and so I took an ibuprofen on an empty stomach.

  Yeah and 20 minutes later, I'm vomiting.

  29:52

  Yeah.

  I can imagine pretty heavy vomiting and and so what ended up what was supposed to be?

  The easiest day.

  Ended up being an awful day for me.

  Oh gosh, we started again at like 5 a.m.

  But I was moving a bit slow and it got hot and so it was moving slower and suddenly I'm in the heat again and at the as I arrived in the camp to, I immediately start retching?

  30:17

  Yeah.

  Back in time where I'm losing my food and losing my water.

  Yeah.

  And my friends told me that day, I just kind of looked like death.

  I was sitting on the tent trying to recover, you know, nibbling where I could I tried to eat again a little bit more.

  30:35

  Later but at 4 p.m. that evening again, I'm vomiting about.

  Yeah.

  So, you know how important hydration is on the mountain?

  Yeah, using all this water and I can't hold it down.

  I'm hearing that.

  Oh, maybe because I was drinking the pure glacier water.

  That was a problem on, Denali it was an issue for me, but now maybe it's an issue you.

  30:55

  So I guess you're supposed to put, like, isotonic in it that your body isn't used to this kind of pure glacier.

  Water running.

  Yeah.

  Either a fruit drink or an isotonic, some kind of salt.

  Yeah, and I mean, that just came into a question to that.

  She's is.

  How how are you getting water between leaving base camp and Camp one camper to do you?

  31:16

  I mean, I guess you don't take a cooker and boil ice or snow, you is, there is a fresh as a running water on the side of it in the sunlight.

  Do you get it from the stops for mean during during the climb?

  Of course I'm just carrying a couple bottles so I'll write here.

  31:33

  So that's enough to get to Camp one.

  Yeah, I can't one then they're boiling snow.

  So hey Rocky they'll boil?

  No, give you this water that they melted.

  Okay, cool.

  But I guess so, I don't know if that was the issue or if was ibuprofen or else, you are all these things.

  31:51

  But I've now on three separate occasions had kind of real significant loss of water and food.

  Yeah, and so slopes as well which had imagined probably the guy, the guides then Something to question, can we let him go up further or do we need to kind of like, you know, per cap on it here.

  32:13

  So one of the things we do we were doing on Mera Peak.

  And again, we were doing here, is we check our spo2 levels so early the next morning we're supposed to hike from Camp to Camp 3, the guys come through and check my spo2 on - go to is below 60.

  Wow, that's some ice.

  32:32

  I've had an SBA to of What 70 I think and that's, you know, that's kind of when you should be on me should be on oxygen therapy at that point anyway and yeah, that's super low.

  Yeah, well, one of the things that everybody's body is a little bit different and this is me I'm not completely sure but when I was a kid I was told that I had fallacy Mia, minor.

  32:58

  I don't know if we discussed this last time or not but thalassemia is basically an adaptation of the That humans have to combat malaria.

  It's kind of like Sickle Cell.

  Okay it's a mutation of the hemoglobin.

  Yeah because hemoglobins little bit misshapen your body just pushes it out really fast and if it is that if you happen to have malaria in your system, you can flush it out faster.

  33:23

  So that's why it's a selective trait in South Asia and a few other places and probably why Sickle Cell spread in parts of Africa it was a way for humans to fight malaria.

  Yeah but if I-i'm disposing of my hemoglobin.

  Then a lot of this training to build up the hemoglobin.

  33:41

  Well, I was gonna say.

  Yeah.

  It's it's not helpful to obviously.

  Yeah.

  So so when we think about what is the adaptation altitude?

  I think hemoglobins part of it but I think there's a bunch of different ways that your body is adapting to altitude.

  33:59

  Yeah, the while I was in the tent, My spo2 would drop quite low.

  So I believe that part of my adaptation was to get used to being comfortable at lower spo2 level.

  There is true.

  Tina was in in, and to have done enough workouts that I can work out.

  34:18

  Even if my body doesn't have as much oxygen, as maybe it should.

  But all that being said, below, 60 sucks.

  It was going to be safe for me because I understand a little bit about what's those days?

  Figures mean.

  And I'll make sure there's a Discussed.

  34:34

  No in it the point in the podcast to explain what spo2 means is it makes the story even richer because you know I led an expedition in Kyrgyzstan why had?

  I think there's minus PA 2 was.

  I think mid-seventies.

  I'll still vomiting most of the night you know and it was still a pretty horrendous headache and not a fun place to be at the best of times.

  34:56

  And you know when yours was hugely lower you on the side of Everest, you know, it's I Can Only Imagine What?

  How much that would certainly, yes.

  Oh, so I think one of the things I understand with spo2 as well, is that over the course of a climb, it can be really different.

  35:14

  So when I was on Kilimanjaro and got turned around, I don't know 4000 meters or even three.

  Something must've been 4,000.

  M got turned around, my SP was in the mid-80s and we felt bad about that.

  That was because I just came from sea level.

  35:30

  Yeah.

  I think over time your body can get A custom to a lower spo2 level, so mid 70s.

  People are pretty comfortable on Everest because they've acclimatize so much already good.

  And I think somebody had mentioned to me one time about somebody who summited Everest without oxygen their spo2 would be very very low at the summit.

  35:51

  Yeah.

  You can kind of get a custom 2000 rescue to level 2 to an extent.

  Yeah but it's exactly as you were saying the guides got pretty nervous and we had a discussion So I think all the guys were concerned, so the owner came to me and we had a discussion about saying Sam, look below, 60 is an indication of something.

  36:11

  So at this point, this was the first day we started using oxygen.

  So I put on my oxygen now, just for a few minutes, while his po2 is back up over 65.

  I was little better.

  Now, the other thing was I was a little bit slower getting out of bed because I've been a bit sick and this was the first day we put on the oxygen.

  36:29

  The first day, we rang the down suits So we and we had to adjust our stuff.

  We had to change our clothes, leave some things there.

  So when I was just a little bit slow on the tent for breakfast, which is again, raising a question in the minds of my guides, right?

  36:44

  Yeah, yeah.

  Maybe.

  Yeah, I would say, I was on the razor's edge of my guides turning me around and, and I've made it a point to practice.

  We talked about before practice failing.

  They did the guy to turn around, turn around.

  Yeah, but we were still at the point where I Looking and feeling good enough.

  37:03

  Let's walk to the bergschrund.

  So the bergschrund is a place where the Steep part of Lotte Glacier meets kind of the flatter area where we're working where were walking on that on the platter Glacier?

  Yeah let's walk to the bergschrund.

  That's we have the oxygen available for me.

  We can always turn it up to a 4 and I can walk down or we can publish a 88 mm, if I'm in trouble.

  37:25

  I feel like let's try and walk to the river.

  So I think he reluctantly said, yes, let's try that.

  But he was quite cautious with it.

  So he walked with me just about the whole way to kind of.

  Yeah.

  And I was able to eat a Snickers bar pretty early on, and I walked quite slowly to make sure I could digest it.

  37:45

  So I had my Snickers bar and a bit of water later.

  I had another Power bunch more water, and I made it to the bergschrund and I felt okay, I wasn't moving very fast.

  So I asked Lucas said, hey how's this looking?

  He says look this is a flat walk, it doesn't really count.

  Now you're coming to load save face.

  38:00

  Let's see how you do on the loads.

  Face.

  Yeah, yeah, I said well fair enough.

  But at least at least I get to fight another half day.

  Yeah.

  At least he was open to this this idea about.

  So let's try a little bit further, a little bit further.

  Yeah.

  And and so, we start going up the lhotse face and here.

  38:20

  I'm super happy with my training and super happy with uphill athlete.

  So I was able to walk up, you know, 40 to 60 degree incline.

  Whatever it is and recover.

  So so I think when you go to that place late training they have you build a strength Reserve, right?

  38:40

  So I was doing my step ups with 150 pounds or 70 kilos.

  We're going to call it and the idea being if I could do that very heavy weight, not for a lot of reps and certainly not to failure.

  But if I got my body comfortable, that heavy weight, then taking a step at a much lower weight.

  38:58

  I can do it while being calm.

  Yeah.

  And so, on top of that strength Reserve, we did the muscular endurance training where I would do an hour, 40 minutes going up and down a very Steep Hill, not quite as steep as the lhotse face, so it's hard to be that Steve will times.

  39:15

  Let's say a pretty steep hill with a good 90 pounds or 40 kilos.

  Did that had me ready?

  So that when I did, this looks a face, even though I'd been sick the day before I was able, my body was able to recover while climbing.

  39:32

  You and I working going fast, but there was no way to go fast because there's a line of people in front of the show.

  So it was it was a few hours to get up what looked like a small section.

  Get up to Camp 3 but at the end of it, I asked, Luka said, no Sam, you're fine, go for it.

  39:49

  I've said, wow and say that that kind of period between come to encamp.

  Three was almost like an opposite period of observation and you know, could have got to come for me and he said, go, you know, go for it.

  Go for some Well, because at that point, he saw that I was climbing.

  40:05

  So he you can't climb up something at Steep and stick page with everybody.

  If your body is not doesn't have the oxygen in here.

  So yeah.

  Can you get I was wearing oxygen so I think oxygen was part of that recovery.

  So I was going at, I was probably at a 1 ml flow going to the bergschrund, I think.

  40:28

  I mean it stayed at one wears a lot of my teammates.

  On the flash, moved up to it too.

  Yeah, I think my God I think because he wanted to see if I was recovering he didn't want to use oxygen to force the recovery.

  Yeah.

  So I'm not the lhotse face on a 1 ml, even though it wasn't uncommon for some of the climbing mates of of my age.

  40:54

  And so I was I was very briefly sick that night but not as heavily sick as I had been the day before, but I will certainly Hungry.

  So I was still a little bit nervous but around 2 a.m.

  I woke up and I was hungry.

  So I had a Pringles, and a date and I little water.

  41:11

  I said I don't see how it was, see how that held down and it stayed down hour later at three hours ago where I was like, this is a very good sign.

  And so, then that morning I got out and and Camp 3.

  41:26

  A lot of the camps are spread out like a champ.

  One, you can be anywhere you.

  So we had our Extends about ourselves.

  Somebody else's over another Glacier.

  Yeah Camp. 2 is quite big.

  You have space camp, three.

  You're on the lhotse face.

  Wait, there's no place to easily.

  41:44

  Go to the toilet, right?

  You should not leave your tent unless you're wearing a crampons.

  Just yeah.

  Like your tent and and walking like a two-foot area, but any movement to go anywhere you should really have your crampons on.

  Yeah, so you can imagine you can imagine taking Care of your human need.

  42:07

  But anyway, even in the morning, when you when you get out there's not a lot of place to hang out.

  So you get out of your tent, kind of got to get out of the way for the person who's with you and your tend to also get out, get out and next to you.

  And those guys are trying to move and their Sherpa are trying to interact to get the stuff.

  42:23

  So, I got out of my tent, kind of got out of the way, but to get out of the way and moved up and my Sherpa had his bag and was with me.

  And the guy says, oh, you're sure but You're just go ahead.

  So me and Papa take off up the lhotse face and there's a lot of other people up ahead of us and it's going to be a big conga line.

  42:41

  Yeah.

  But because it was just me and my Sherpa moving, we ended up being able to pass people.

  Now it's not easy path.

  So we weren't passing people all the time, kind of you get your Ascender out and you or you leave your Sandra and you go with your security around them.

  42:57

  Yes.

  Your you never want to be off this rope actually it's low even if Felt comfortable as a client.

  You wouldn't want to do that to your Sherpa on your guide.

  Yeah.

  And make them an odd.

  Nice from now you and I wouldn't say I was comfortable not being there.

  But because it was just me my Sherpa, I could just rely on my Sherpa to catch up to me.

  43:18

  So I was just able to single person to pass and and end up moving up through a lot of people.

  So you move up through the loads of his little face takes a while.

  So we had the three hours of the first day to get to Camp 3 and then it just keeps on going up and up and up.

  Wow, I think it's like 1,300 meters or 1700 meters of vertical.

  43:36

  Like, there's no climbing up the face.

  Wow, that's enormous.

  So it's kind of like the headwall on Denali just a lot lot more of it, right?

  Yeah.

  I think the headwall might be a little deeper.

  43:53

  I did.

  It was kind of a sand part, so many stepped in it.

  A lot of most of the places and load save face, because there are enough people you're there too.

  But I would say parts of the headwall, seemed a little bit harder in a way, but the loads of face just goes on and on, and on, After a while, you get to what's called.

  44:15

  So then you come up to another, you come up to what's called the yellow band.

  So the yellow band is a set of rocks that are as you could guess.

  Yellow.

  So it is a bit of kind of steeper climbing up through some rocks and it can be a little Quagmire.

  44:37

  As, you know, maybe people are coming up and down and some people are slower to climb up and over so you get Who the yellow band and then you start traversing across an ice field.

  And I got super excited because I started to see tense or at least the remains of tents bottles of oxygen.

  44:55

  So, do work camp for this is great and I kind of left my sure behind.

  So I found like a an old.

  I don't like to be on the line in front of people.

  So I kind of clamp it off to the side and hooked onto a, an old backpack that seemed to had frozen into the ice.

  45:11

  So, I hooked into that Yes, I had some water and some snacks while waiting for my Sherpa to come up and we don't really speak the same language.

  So it took me a little while to figure out that this was not, in fact, Camp 4 at all, or at least, not cancel for Everest Base Camp for four load say I really.

  45:29

  Oh God.

  So we were, we were still with our same load, save people.

  And the load say people would hook up here would Camp here before they are sent, but we had to keep going.

  So I've been out for about four hours and I realized.

  45:47

  Okay, we got to do a bit more.

  So then you go up against some steep rocks.

  Is so you go, you go across this ice field, which kind of a Traverse, it's not quite as Steep, and then you go up some steeper rocks, but then the Rocks level off and you're kind of on a hiking path.

  46:03

  So a couple hours later, we come into camp for and I was excited because I still knew I was the first guy from my group.

  So my Sherpa went to start setting up the camp and I got to take some pictures.

  46:19

  And now you're up against the side of Everest was taking some pictures of Everest.

  Yeah.

  Taking pictures down to the valley below and enjoying myself and I kind of forgot the rules of self-care, you know.

  46:34

  So I noticed a slight win, but I didn't think much of it and that one up and got cold and suddenly my eye hurt My eye.

  So suddenly, the vision in my left eye was quite cloudy.

  My right eye was fine.

  No, I tried to close my eye fast, but I didn't think about, hey, there's a little bit of wind put on your goggles.

  46:54

  Yeah.

  But which so, I was a little bit worried about it and my guide looked at it that evening and he's like, oh you have some edema but it's not so bad.

  So so by by midnight that night, my, that edema had gone away but it doesn't, you know, it doesn't take away from the fact that I made a mistake by not really practicing self-care.

  47:15

  I kind of got carried away with my pictures and thinking about other things, when I should have been making sure that I was warm enough.

  Making sure my eyes were protected.

  So that what that was, that was a mistake I made and thankful.

  I wasn't punished too hard for it.

  Yeah.

  47:31

  Which is entirely understandable anxieties.

  No.

  I think I've done many amount of times.

  I've been sunburned Mountain mountaineering before.

  You know, I lose count on because I always forget Just because because you're distracted by the incredible scenery the you know, the fun experience little I always forget to apply sunscreen so I can completely empathize with how that must have been me.

  47:58

  But I was really excited because after that day of being sick and almost turned around this day, I was end up being about two hours ahead of the rest of my group.

  Wow.

  So that's disability, I had to just pass people now.

  And again, I do You think my training helped that I was able to ascend quite well with pill athlete training?

  48:18

  I think that was, that was a big part of it.

  Yeah.

  No I do have to also recognize it was because I started ahead of them and I was able to go by myself.

  Whereas, if you're in a group 30, you just can't pass.

  Yeah, exactly.

  Yeah.

  He's really stuck behind a bunch of groups whereas if somebody was slow ahead of me, I could just quickly moves leap for them here.

  48:38

  But but it felt really good to be up there early and You know, after almost being turned around.

  So then then the debate started about okay?

  When when are we going to go up?

  So this was for our guides to make but you know hence don't have very thick walls so I was able to speak so you know that we are idea was usually leave super early ahead of other people but I think other people also had that idea and we knew they had that idea.

  49:10

  So the idea was let's Go have our Sherpa talk with their sure but to figure out what their plans are so we don't get all crossed.

  And so what we were wondering is some people were going to go as early as 8:00 or 9:00 p.m. that night.

  I discovered something sorry that just to clarify that skateistan.

  49:26

  Yeah.

  So now we're talking about going from camp for for the summit push. and and so then some others were talking about going, maybe it 11 p.m. and it seemed like that's when all the groups were going to go, we're going to be 11 p.m. maybe as one of the later times.

  49:49

  So what we ultimately ended up deciding to us to go at 2 a.m.

  So as not to get caught in that Rush on the way up.

  Yeah.

  And then since we're going to get caught in this, anyway, let's get caught at the tail end of it and let's make sure that our Summit is sunny.

  50:10

  So yeah, too much of it.

  So I was a little bit neutral on that a part of me was like, oh, that's just get ahead of all these jerks.

  But, you know, I have this historic opportunity to the first Afghan.

  Let's get some Son for that.

  Hey, that's what that's got to do.

  50:27

  So we go to bed and there's a couple of us a couple of team members.

  They want them to leave an hour earlier because they think they'll need that time.

  So the idea is to have a wake up.

  For two individuals, one of whom's my tent-mate at midnight.

  They can one and the rest of us will wake up at one to leave it to.

  50:47

  It's a bit of a disturbance but to be honest at Camp 4.

  You're not sleeping that much anyway.

  It's more just relaxing.

  Yeah.

  Just waiting for the summit.

  Pushed exactly.

  Exactly.

  So then I look at my watch and I see it's already midnight.

  51:07

  And nobody's come to wake up my tent mate.

  I was like hey what's going on guys?

  And I hear the tent over with the other the other person who's supposed to be waking up at midnight, and they're also talking and they're wondering where so, finally, I yell at the at the guy who's like, hey, you know, it's it's midnight.

  51:24

  I thought you're going to give water to these two guys who are going to go.

  I thought we are waking up and going and he agrees is like yeah what's happening?

  Where's the water?

  What's going on?

  And why isn't this happening?

  And then the other guide who's wearing an analog watch instead of a digital watch says hey guys it's 10:00.

  51:44

  It's not midnight.

  What are you thinking?

  So what happens at Camp 4 is that if you have a GPS watch that sets Time by GPS it switched it over to the Chinese, huh?

  Phone service.

  Wow, I needs time.

  52:01

  Oh my god.

  Wow, that's I'm in a species.

  I've never had that problem before but I can.

  It makes complete sense.

  So it was like it.

  What the weird thing was on, one of our guides have been talking about the fact that this was going to happen and we all kind of kind of recognize it at the time he was saying it but as we were sleeping looking at our watches and phones for got it.

  52:25

  Yeah, yeah yeah.

  Makes sound.

  I can't go back to sleep, midnight, we try and go back to sleep for another two hours and then, you know, get up again later and, and then yeah.

  52:41

  So so we get up and go for it and my, my headlamp again, is even weaker this time forgotten about my headlamp is just like giving piss-poor light, And so, I'm going up the Steep face of Everest with like, you know, a quarter of a flashlight.

  53:04

  Like, kinda like, kinda like it.

  Yes, summiting Everest.

  But it's, but it's like a conga line, right?

  So, so, I have a sherpa in front of me and a stripper behind me, and I can kind of see where they were walking or sometimes their head light flashes across things.

  53:22

  So it's a little bit tough in spots because I'm wearing like liner, Gloves with hand warmers inside.

  And then I have the big minutes.

  And so, like moving the, moving the Ascender and moving, the protection quickly on ropes, with that, without being able to see so.

  53:41

  Well, that was a little bit kind of questionable, I wasn't that great.

  Even though I'd practiced it a bit, I guess having a liners and then the warmers inside was making a little bit more.

  So after a while I was I felt that I was warm enough to just take off the meds and do it in my liners.

  53:56

  Yes, well, maybe not ideal but I was more you warm your body by walking.

  The hill.

  Yeah.

  Wearing wearing this big down to.

  So we move up the mountain and nobody's with us, right?

  54:12

  We're kind of on our own and we're able to look back over at the mountain behind us and we can see our friend.

  We can see the headlights going up that mountain.

  I mean, we know our friends are climbing up the mountain as well, so that was kind of fun and, you know, that they can see our our line going up the mountain, and it's a pretty fun picture, too.

  54:32

  To see and I plan to have it framed as my Everest picture is, is a picture from our neighboring mountain of our whole line going up.

  Wow, I'd love to see that kind of.

  Then I'll send that through.

  It's a beautiful evening lecture and, you know, after a while it starts getting a little bit lighter and so that I'm not worried about my headlamp anymore, which is good.

  54:59

  And as we start to Crest, I look up and I see the bright Sun is coming, and I see it's quite windy.

  So I very quickly grabbed my goggles and get them on.

  Let's go see the rest either either from the snow or from the Sun.

  55:15

  So I get it.

  I get my goggles on and then we're kind of stuck there hanging out for a while and I'm trying to figure out what's going on.

  I can see somebody up at the top and I can tell by her kind of special pole crutches.

  That it's an amputee who is climbing who had seen the day before and she she was stuck waiting because there were so many of us on the Rope going up.

  55:37

  So she and her team were waiting for us to come down and finally, I get over the crest and I see what's happened.

  Is, this is where after you go up the, the Steep, the Steep area up to the ridge, you got up to what's called the balcony.

  And at the balcony, everybody's changing their oxygen.

  55:56

  So I think there's a really big Chinese team ahead of us and kind of people are almost waiting in line for their turn but that doesn't help when you're blocking a whole rope.

  Yeah.

  Just kind of I just get up and walk around that whole line and just stand on the balcony to create space and my Sherpa find me and get on my oxygen and one of our guys is like hey you got on your Ox I said what he said, what are you doing?

  56:18

  Said, I'm waiting for my services.

  Don't worry about your sure, we'll get you don't get stuck behind this group, get on the road.

  So I get on the rope and start.

  Moving.

  I don't really know who's ahead of me, but I do hear out after about two or three hundred meters.

  That is Johnny.

  Hi, I'm Johnny on the Ridgeline and at first you think, well, we went up the Steep part.

  56:40

  Now it's the ridge but the ridge does have a lot more finding it's not.

  So you're still a lot of uphill service, you're going up a steep, Ridge and more and more.

  As you go up, you start coming up with people coming down.

  Yeah.

  At one point there's a famous mountain year.

  57:00

  I guess he's a British guy who's summited more than any other non Nepali as I can.

  Some cool part.

  Yeah, dependent go.

  So he'd been hanging out with us a little bit at base camp at one of the guys, one of my 10 mates on Mera Peak had climbed with him before.

  57:17

  So, so I'd said hi to him anyway.

  See coming down with his team and he's trying to get us to stop so that his client can come down.

  His Client needs, is this Titan Park.

  So I actually stopped the line because I said, well, we're going to get stopped ahead anyway, right, so why not create some space, let this guy go.

  57:37

  And that is so.

  So I created space for Clinton to get his his grandma, right?

  But more and more that happened.

  So his client maybe just needed a little bit of help.

  But there were some places where there were some clients who are almost in a rescue situation there.

  57:56

  Definitely, a lot of people on that mountain, who should not have been on the mountain.

  Yeah, let's hit that Sky quite a lot from and computer.

  I talked to you this day, they say, who I am prepared for it and not not adequately set up for it.

  But yes, that's definitely something that I've heard before.

  58:13

  So, you can imagine if somebody's left at 8 p.m. the night before and they've been moving slowly and they're carting crowds, do they have enough oxygen, right?

  Maybe, maybe not have have they done the necessary?

  Terry workouts, or they push themselves to the Limit just to get to the summit.

  58:30

  Yeah, this is that.

  You're only halfway there.

  You gotta get yourself down.

  So yeah, it's going to say.

  Yeah, it's coming down and so you'd observe people being kind of manhandled by either their guides are there Sherpas on these Ridge lines and you have people trying to go in both directions and if it's a narrow Ridge you got to have a little bit of dexterity to clip around and move around and if You don't have that.

  58:57

  It's it's pretty bad.

  We're at the balcony.

  We've not hits Hillary Step yet, is that, right?

  So we're going up this steep area and, you know, you're watching a guide manage somebody through it and you just wonder how how they're doing it because it is hard.

  59:18

  And some of these places just to climb by myself, it's not simple.

  And so how do you do that and then manage somebody who can barely move.

  Their legs, if they're like a bobblehead there that's being carried through.

  Yeah.

  So one of my public services Iraq to was to stop the whole line behind me to make space for people to come through.

  59:38

  Then we know, we're just going to get stuck waiting.

  And so why not create the space so that these, these teams of people who, some of them are, who are really struggling and need help, they can come through this narrow area and then after they come through, then then our whole group can go through.

  59:55

  So I did.

  Did that on a couple of occasions and, you know, the people behind me like why aren't you going?

  You just let these guys through because we're anyway going to get stuck and I and then I got I got slow for a while.

  1:00:12

  So actually lowered my flow rate a bit.

  Get told you, I was I was one flow rate of 1 ml on that first day.

  Yeah, set it going up.

  The load, say face, I was a, I was a to, I think.

  So my colleagues went three or four hundred K on Saddam and day.

  1:00:31

  I went with a three and I never, I never went above a 3.

  Yeah, and places we were going.

  So slowly that I tried going down to a tour, one because I wasn't really exerting myself.

  I was waiting in line, so I thought let's conserve the oxygen.

  Yeah, this one's for up to eight.

  1:00:48

  So eight would be the highest flow rate that wouldn't last for very long.

  But yeah, you have up to that.

  If you are in some emergency situation, you really need For a while.

  Yeah.

  So we were going so slow.

  They I lower down to a 3 and I met this american guy and we were discussing because I guess he'd left early and so he'd been there quite a long time so I told him that I'd only been on the mountain seminars.

  1:01:11

  Like what how did are you only seven hours up.

  He must have gotten stuck in a group from leaving earlier and from where we were standing.

  We just saw long lines to the to the summit and he's like so I have to watch spend two hours.

  Has to show that I officially climbed Everest.

  1:01:29

  Is that really something?

  I wait up here, two more hours and we're making Disney comparisons.

  And I think he turned around to that point I think he said I don't feel like waiting these two hours which I understand for me because I was doing the first Afghan Ascent.

  1:01:47

  It was very important for me to find something very different.

  Yeah.

  But I can understand his reflective look.

  I've gotten pretty close to the top here.

  I've experienced Everest.

  There.

  I actually stand in line to hit the peak or not.

  Does that really matter?

  I think it's I think it's a valid position.

  1:02:03

  Yeah yeah yeah so I don't know if he finally summited or you know he'd done the difficult part but or what he did but I think he turned around at that point so then we keep going and there's a mix of steep areas.

  1:02:20

  You know there's just one kind of snowy area that it was a little bit difficult to get purchase going up.

  And I have to say that the Hillary Step is kind of a non-event at this point.

  I really so I think it was quite significant at one point but after an earthquake a couple years ago I think the Hillary Step kind of collapse in a certain way so it is still there but I can't say that it stuck out in my memory as super significant along the way.

  1:02:51

  Yeah how interesting.

  But, you know, at one point someone saying, oh, yeah, that was a Hillary Step.

  And, you know, there's a South Summit there, these different things, you're moving through.

  But I think a little bit after the Hillary Step is, when suddenly it wasn't crowded anymore, isn't so then we were able to kind of move up.

  1:03:13

  And I really enjoyed that last part of it where I was able to kind of Walk Up, Walk Up and enjoy.

  Yeah, and I guess but that point you obviously the summit since And it's going to turning on you that you will.

  You will submit?

  1:03:29

  Yeah yeah.

  So I was pretty excited.

  I started doing some an early video there.

  I thought it was a good place to do it and then and then I got up to the summit and there was a certain amount of crowd at the summit but they were spaces around, you know, right at the flags was pretty full.

  1:03:46

  Yeah, there are some I believe an Indian lady doing an interesting ceremony, she comes at Prime position for quite a long time.

  NG time it with a dress that she had something going on with and then.

  So a lot of people are trying to get up to that point but they're placed at the edge where you can kind of relax and just enjoy being at the summit.

  1:04:06

  I kind of did it go into the middle and and they're pretty specific.

  They're saying listen if you want to get your summit certificate will need to have a picture without your mask on it where we can come and closing clearly see your face.

  Yes part of why I took those videos by those took those pictures but I was still comfortable.

  1:04:24

  So I Did some more videos without my without my oxygen without my goggles.

  So I did a couple videos kind of talking about the Afghanistan situation.

  Yeah, and I guess just just to give us a bit more of an impression of kind of what it is.

  Like, I mean, if you had to kind of estimate how big the Summit is, you know, from one side to the other and how many people were up there, just to give us a bit of a richer picture.

  1:04:48

  What's how with it?

  The kind of section where everybody's hanging out would probably be a 6 meter by 8 meter room, slightly singed it.

  1:05:05

  Yeah then that part there.

  There's some other there's more steep area off to the side which is accessible by rope.

  Yeah.

  Crowd up that area a little bit more and then there's a flatter area down below that with some more space So, so you could, again you can maybe triple that space.

  1:05:25

  So people are kind of clouded crowd into that one space, but you could triple that space and and consider more that not the true Summit, but the summit area.

  So it's just a little bit flat as well, but you're the bushes.

  Good.

  Yeah.

  So I'm guessing, this is what great 2020 people up there.

  1:05:42

  The most or moaning 666 m, a big space, right?

  So, I would say there could have been 30 or 40 people easily there.

  Wow.

  Wow, so that's it.

  Almost sounds like a crowd on this and it doesn't it's yeah.

  There's a there was a crowd of people there a and and Sherpa with them.

  1:06:01

  And you know, there's a reason why there wasn't a crowd on the ropes there, because the crowd was there at the summit comes out there.

  There's no, I guess, you know, I've not done, you know, I've not been to Everest or even to the base camp, so it by whenever I read about it in, you know, in history books and And seeing the photos and documentaries of it.

  1:06:23

  So it really brings.

  It helps me visualize it now from understanding, and how many people would fit on this on the summit and the imagine that peak in it because obviously, you did, you did Montblanc Summits.

  So you know, obviously what that something is like it's really quite quite vast, isn't it?

  1:06:40

  There you can you can walk around the summit of Mont Blanc and yeah, so I did a handstand I'm not long, I did.

  I didn't do a handstand.

  I really wanted to but I had a lot of videos.

  1:06:57

  I felt like I needed to do and I was kind of running low on time and so I got down to this flat area and I felt there was just still people around.

  I wasn't uncomfortable on clipping from the rope and taking off the oxygen mask.

  Yeah.

  Like the whole because you have to be responsible for your pack that has your mask and your oxygen in it.

  1:07:17

  So so how does it so I was like, all right, let's just take Victory.

  We have.

  We're going to leave the hand behind.

  Go down, even though I really wanted to So then we, then we start moving down and one of the guys who'd been up on the summit.

  1:07:57

  Who I just.

  He stuck out for just being so excited to be there.

  You could just see on his face, the Elation.

  Yeah, wow.

  Suddenly he's hysterical, he's saying save me.

  Somebody save me.

  I need oxygen, get me oxygen, I'm going to die up here.

  Help me, save me, please somebody.

  So I turned to my guy and I said, look, I know that my Sherpa has three bottles of oxygen because I don't I haven't been using my oxygen that hard and I know I One of them and I'd like to have one in reserve but if there's three I know that I'm an extra.

  1:08:25

  So I don't tell my leahey.

  You can use one of my option bottles, it's make sure we help this guy and I guide says look, we will intervene we're going to rescue this person.

  Don't worry as a guide company.

  For tomorrow, we have enough, oxygen Sam, keep your oxygen.

  You go down, will will intervene.

  1:08:42

  And we'll see what was, what was what's wrong?

  So, yeah, I didn't happen to him at that point, but I saw the next day, I the next day or when we get down, I asked my God, what happened and he said oh I asked our lead Sherpa mingma who's some of the 23 times?

  1:08:59

  You could do.

  So mingma goes to this climber and burns on his oxygen.

  Yeah, that's right.

  1:09:29

  What was going on on Facebook to Summit for his country?

  So it was, it's a good, it's a good story in the end, but, you know, on at Summit you can, you can go from really real high as to real lows.

  1:09:52

  And, you know, I could easily see that happening to me.

  It's it's not, it's not a negative on the guy, which Funny story.

  Yeah, now B, is that that kind of it's not Summit fever in the innocence of going for something that's Out Of Reach but it's I guess you can almost Forget Where You Are by the sounds of it, you know, when you're when you reach the summit of something that you've tried so hard to achieve, isn't it?

  1:10:15

  Yeah.

  Yeah.

  And so then on the way down I told you there was that kind of snowy section that was a little bit tough to get through so there was still somebody coming up so even though I thought we were at the end, I guess that whole Chinese group we passed they were still going up.

  1:10:31

  Wow, there weren't that many but there was this one Sherpa who is trying to pull this smaller Chinese lady up this steep snowy section.

  So one of our Sherpa just kind of walked around but as a client I didn't feel comfortable on clipping from the Rope, it has been dating the Rope on this narrow snowy section that was hard to climb up and so he kept there was yelling going back and forth you like I'm cutting you off.

  1:10:54

  This is I mean he's be I don't know the language but you Tell by his motion.

  These thing declines over your done, and they're so close to the summit.

  And so we have to give up, but she's also not climbing up this thing and he's trying to lure our sharp are pulling the Rope trying to pull her and she's just stuck and I'm just sitting there watching this for a while because I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

  1:11:15

  Ya think what can I do is I'm going to click myself to the sherpa.

  So I click myself to his belt.

  Yeah.

  In order to protect myself to go around and I and then I clip on the rope in between them and I I climb around her and I clip on the road when I get down and I look back on my she's not that heavy.

  1:11:33

  So I kind of Step Up underneath her and I put one hand under her rear end and I try to do a single arm lifts up and and I'm moving her a little bit and the sherpa sees what I'm doing.

  So he's pulling and then her legs and then she knows what's going on.

  So, her legs are spinning through the snow, but not only did I couldn't.

  1:11:52

  And after trying to do that, I was so exhausted because it's one thing to like do.

  A movement with your big leg muscles moving your body that you're used to, but to try and do an overhead press from the summit of Everest.

  I was out of breath, but I'm done with that.

  1:12:11

  She can, she can go down the mountain or whatever.

  I'm not involved in this anymore.

  And then a little bit later, I'm walking along and I start feeling like really fatigued, like what's going on, I can and And so I had I'd run out of oxygen and I was thinking is my oxygen out, but the mask was still felt like there was something there, but I guess was that's just the valve going in and out.

  1:12:36

  So I was a debacle, thankfully, we were right at the spot where my ship was planning to change my oxygen, but that kind of 40 feet, kind of walking without oxygen, it was with a challenge and I saw an uphill coming I was like I don't want to go up that up here actually but thankfully we were right at the spot for changing oxygen so I changed my outfit like okay this is this is great.

  1:12:57

  No.

  Um so we go down and I'm pretty good at descending.

  So I was able to descend pretty fast.

  I mean I burnt my arm with a rope and a few cases just maybe a bit too hard and too fast but they were people who weren't moving down very well.

  1:13:13

  So I could hear our guides yelling at the get up.

  You can't stay here.

  But we and again, we were caught in some places where people would struggle with the ropes ahead of you and you just got to wait for them to get down the Steep group section.

  1:13:31

  But, but once we got through the crowds there were places where you can move pretty fast.

  So so I was able to get down to Camp 4 and my total time was about 12 and a half hours for summoning, which I think is reasonable.

  I think some people spent a lot more time up there.

  1:13:47

  Yeah.

  With a Dremel tool. - I know you again, how long do you actually spend that as at the summit so that 12 and a half hours, what kind of thing could have been up there?

  For a good, 20 minutes?

  Okay.

  Well so yeah, maybe even a teeny bit more because I was trying to do different different video and stuff.

  1:14:05

  Yeah.

  So that was good.

  We and we get down to camp for we wait for a couple of teammates and then I think the sherpa want to wait to get everything ready so they can break down Camp.

  So they have us gather to go at 6 p.m. and to go down to Camp to because you don't want to stay overnight at Camp 4.

  1:14:27

  It's a good place to really recover.

  So at 6 p.m. they send us out to go down all the way to Camp 2.

  Yeah.

  You are on easy hiking, path to go down the rocks.

  And then we start having a really beautiful sunset.

  So, that was the most beautiful part of my trip was coming down.

  1:14:47

  The load save face, you're still up over 7,000 meters, just looking out at these beautiful mountains around you, with a Sunset and some soft clouds to kind of reflect and play with the Sun going.

  And I didn't take any pictures.

  I just wanted to enjoy it.

  Yeah, that was a really nice.

  1:15:04

  Nice thing but then, Following that incredible poignant moment, I come over you, you come across other people who are kind of going slowly and and you hear your God yelling at them.

  But then I came across a body, hanging upside down from the road with a hat, pulled over his head and my immediate reaction is hey you can't stay here, maybe you were falling asleep or something.

  1:15:28

  Wake up, wake up and my shirt looks like this guy's not waking up.

  You don't don't shake him soon.

  So so that was must have been a sherpa who died that day is mine.

  Well, and this time is still attached to the Rope.

  You said, there are still attached to a rope.

  So maybe that another ropes have been put out.

  1:15:45

  Oh, sure.

  So or maybe it's after you switch rope, so it could be the bottom of one rope before you get you another rope.

  I see?

  Yeah, I didn't have to clip around him.

  I know he was kind of hanging off the side because again the loads of faces so steep.

  Yeah, flat area.

  He's, he's literally hanging still from his carabiner to the road.

  1:16:05

  Yeah, well sure.

  He said.

  So the so you start thinking again about walking carefully as well because you're on this steep, steep slope and then it's getting darker.

  So after after now to failures of my headlamp, I did think, after summiting I did changed my new Energizer lithium batteries.

  1:16:26

  Hey, that's it.

  I have some light.

  So so as it as it's getting dark, I get on my headlamp and and put it on my helmet.

  And and I have a little Light, it's not nearly as bright as the other.

  So clearly this ten-year-old headlamp is not a business tycoon technology, but I believe that's in a better headlamp.

  1:16:45

  Okay, so I have my head man by walking around and earlier on my Sherpa basically waved me on because he was, he's carrying more weight and he's 50 years old and he's just going a little slower and I was going downhill, faster, Sam, go ahead.

  So I'm going down the mountain.

  1:17:02

  I'm now by myself and it's pretty dark.

  And I'm going down this super-steep hill.

  It's a face.

  Yeah.

  And then my head lamp goes out.

  Oh no go.

  So I'm sitting there, I'm like, what's going on?

  Well I kind of had an immediate inkling that it was just the context of come off but I don't have like another light with which, to fix it.

  1:17:29

  So I kind of stamp in a place to stand.

  And then kind of sit down the best.

  I can at that angle, take off my helmet, which I also don't want slipping.

  I think maybe I tried to hook my helmet and maybe I tried to strap it into my backpack.

  1:17:48

  Yeah, the headlamp and I very gingerly very carefully open up the headlamp and you know, how these are right.

  The batteries are just like sitting right there.

  Yeah, that's what I hope.

  The batteries, don't slip out and I just try and press the batteries back.

  1:18:03

  Into the contacts.

  And they, you know, the batteries pop out a little bit as you as you open it up.

  So I'm getting that the plus minus and the minus plus role in our Direction because I can't see shit, man.

  I close a headlamp and I press the button the first time and it doesn't want.

  1:18:20

  But, I know I did and I press it the second time and I press it firmly and the light comes on, And then I was really happy.

  1:18:36

  I run into one of my climbing climbing mates, actually, one of the guys who'd been on the, on the team with Johnny, on the classic team, so Colin, so Colin.

  And I ended up teaming up and going down the rest of the lhotse face together in the dark.

  1:18:54

  And there were a couple parts where I slid out, but I had the Rope wrap, really tightly around my arm.

  And so it was and I also had a protection in, but the protection, isn't that much?

  It's right on a regular Mountain.

  I like on Denali between protection points.

  1:19:09

  Maybe it's 20 feet, sometimes will be 10 feet or shorter, so always clipping in and out because it's so long.

  You might have like 120 foot stretch between the points where the Rope protection is in.

  So if you were all and rely on protection, you'd slide for 100 feet pretty terrifying experience.

  1:19:30

  So that is why I would like a lot of people, they do a right hand left hand hold the Rope but I would Wrap the Rope around my arm, like the full arm wrap and then, yeah, which was good.

  Thank you.

  Thanks and started walking on the easy part into Camp to and it took a while.

  1:19:54

  There was still a half day's walk for on that previous day.

  So we're walking down hill to get to Camp to the closer.

  We get to Camp to the more I realized how exhausted I was.

  It was 12 and a half hours camp for to Summit in back and now it's getting on six hours to get the camp to.

  1:20:12

  Yeah.

  Oh that last kind of quarter mile and to Camp to I was I was really Dragon but we get in the Kingdom to and there's a guy running the kitchen, he brings out noodles.

  We eat drink and go to the tent.

  1:20:29

  Go to sleep, get up in the morning.

  And my tentmates talking about, hey can I get a helicopter down him to everybody?

  And so the way it works is that if you need a helicopter rescue from Camp to then on the official register, you'll have an asterisk next to your name that you didn't descend all the way that you'll take, it will know that you needed the helicopter rescue and the helicopter will immediately take you to the hotel and Kathmandu sorry to the Batman do so you can't go and his family was going to meet him at base camp so he's like, all right, I like down.

  1:21:11

  I'm not, I don't know.

  There has been one of the other climbers with us.

  Had some serious frostbite on his feet and so rather than hike down and maybe damages feet more, he said I'm going to take the rescue.

  So one of our one of the climbers who was with us did take the rescue.

  Yeah.

  1:21:27

  Which his feet were covered.

  Maybe he would have been okay walking down but it's I don't think it's working at risk.

  Yeah.

  Yeah, he helicoptered out the rest of us walked down and the most scary part of the khumbu glacier on the way up was there was one crevasse that had for ladders across it.

  1:21:48

  And as you walk across these four, aluminum ladders that are tied together by twine, they Flex a lot.

  So I guess the night before and likes quite a lot and it had fallen through while somebody was on it.

  Oh wow.

  So that person they said he was injured.

  1:22:04

  We don't know how He was but you know, there was a safety rope as well.

  So so he lived but was injured but that Crossing was gone.

  I was so what we heard was that ice doctors just needed an hour to work on it in the morning.

  So so we go through the glacier.

  1:22:23

  I had never really used a figure eight before.

  So we I use it in practice at base camp, but this is my first time using it on a real climb.

  So I get on my finger, a dime going down these The super steep areas and bling, which was fun.

  1:22:38

  It was, it was cool.

  It was, it was, it was enjoyable.

  Yeah, but we didn't notice that crevasse, so they just somehow rerouted us through a different area.

  There were some sketchy places so I guess this the sketchy Place must have been the new routing that wasn't as as well rope does it.

  1:22:58

  But it was it was a long day.

  So our Sherpa were like hired and I wasn't in a mood to run.

  So I let Johnny and his guide and Colin go off fast and I went with my Sherpa pace, which was perfect.

  We yeah, a lot of rest.

  It got a little bit hot but then it was a little bit cloudy.

  1:23:17

  So it wasn't as hot as maybe it would have been.

  And then we got into base camp and I was, I was super happy to be done.

  Well, hey, I mean, it's estimated ordinary that think, you know, I almost feel like I've lived it there with you.

  You know, that in that in the kind of the richness of the detail, which able to bring out from, it is, it's It's such a huge, huge experience, isn't it?

  1:23:38

  It's, you know, it's every issue.

  It's the one, the one mountain.

  I think everyone.

  You know, everyone has heard of us met because it's so iconic.

  Yeah, okay.

  Well, let's, let's go for real, the real push for me was, you know, being able to go up there and now use it as a platform for Afghan Peaks, that's been for me really great and you've been really helpful in helping me, get out the Afghan Peaks message.

  1:24:05

  But it's been a platform now, where the Afghan media wants wants to hear about it.

  And a lot of Afghans have been really excited for it.

  So that's been exciting for me and I'm looking forward to what it can do for Afghan Peaks.

  Yeah.

  Well, let's, um, let's before we wrap up, let's send just hear a little bit more about kind of the future of Afghan Peaks and what it's meant for the country as well, because I'm sure it would have.

  1:24:27

  It would have inspired Afghan Mountaineers to, obviously, to go for the big Summits and also to redefine, man.

  Veneering as well.

  Yeah but for now I think the easiest way for people to access and enjoy them out and skiing so focused on that, I certainly want to focus on Afghan, mountaineering more in the future.

  1:24:47

  So you have ski race and we are having local Carpenters, Bill old skis and give those out.

  So that's part of our program in Bamiyan.

  What I'd like to see next is to have not just the Bamiyan Ski Club.

  I'd like to see ski clubs and all of the Afghan provinces that can support it.

  1:25:03

  So I'd like to see Ten different ski clubs in different provinces and having enter Afghan racist.

  That would be beautiful for me.

  That'd be fantastic.

  I can imagine the Afghanistan as a Olympic destination that something in the future would just be to be fantastic.

  1:25:20

  I mean, my vision is there to the mountains been spectacular.

  So look at the photos now with with such a heartfelt memories.

  Yeah, great well okay.

  And so before they go where can they can people follow you for to follow the Afghan peace and hear more information about it was the best way for them to keep up.

  1:25:43

  Yeah, so a keeps a Facebook page, so you can just look up Afghan Peaks and you'll find it there.

  I posted a lot on my personal page, made it public.

  So you can see see, see a little bit there for you, if you want to look for Sam Sidiqi, but I think Afghan Peaks is the right place to look.

  1:26:00

  And if you, if you want to support Afghan, peace, you can do so on our website at www.apmt.us work.

  Okay, great.

  So, I'll make sure these reflected in the show notes as well, so that we can combine do easier but So um, it's been incredible.

  1:26:16

  I feel like, I've just like, I've just summited.

  Everest is almost like, I need to give myself a bit of a break, but to say, thank you so much for sharing your incredible story with us.

  And congratulations again on your historic achievement.

  It's actually fantastic.

  1:26:32

  Thanks for your kind words and thanks for creating a platform for Afghan peace to share its message as well.

  I really appreciate it was really good talking to some in this episode.

  If you want to know more about And Afghan peaks, look in the show notes below and I'll see you next time.

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